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	<title>Comments on: The Times vs. Guardian strategies: uber-dumb &amp; smart</title>
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	<link>http://steveouting.com/2010/07/02/the-times-vs-guardian-strategies-uber-dumb-smart/</link>
	<description>Journalist, consultant, entrepreneur ... Musings on digital media, Web 2.0/3.0, &#38; news in the Internet era</description>
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		<title>By: This Week in Review: Time’s non-pay paywall, free vs. pay in Britain and what to do with content farms &#124; Mark Coddington</title>
		<link>http://steveouting.com/2010/07/02/the-times-vs-guardian-strategies-uber-dumb-smart/comment-page-1/#comment-96414</link>
		<dc:creator>This Week in Review: Time’s non-pay paywall, free vs. pay in Britain and what to do with content farms &#124; Mark Coddington</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Aug 2010 00:52:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://steveouting.com/?p=1422#comment-96414</guid>
		<description>[...] Steve Outing and Poynter&#8217;s Bill Mitchell noted that the Times&#8217; paywall is among the most impenetrable we&#8217;ve seen yet in newspapers: All non-subscribers can see is the homepage, and even the headlines are blocked from online news aggregators. New York&#8217;s Chris Rovsar took stock of what The New York Times (planning its own paid-content system next year) could learn from how the Times rolled out its paywall, and basically, it boils down to, &#8220;Whatever they did, just don&#8217;t do it.&#8221; He and the Press Gazette&#8217;s Dominic Ponsford ripped the Times&#8217; paid-content strategy, criticizing it for not being RSS-compatible, not linking, and giving away desperate-looking freebies. (Rovsar and Ponsford do acknowledge that the site is cheap and pretty, respectively.) British journalist Kevin Anderson used the Times&#8217; paywall as an opportunity to light into the thinking that leads newspapers to charge for content online in the first place. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Steve Outing and Poynter&#8217;s Bill Mitchell noted that the Times&#8217; paywall is among the most impenetrable we&#8217;ve seen yet in newspapers: All non-subscribers can see is the homepage, and even the headlines are blocked from online news aggregators. New York&#8217;s Chris Rovsar took stock of what The New York Times (planning its own paid-content system next year) could learn from how the Times rolled out its paywall, and basically, it boils down to, &#8220;Whatever they did, just don&#8217;t do it.&#8221; He and the Press Gazette&#8217;s Dominic Ponsford ripped the Times&#8217; paid-content strategy, criticizing it for not being RSS-compatible, not linking, and giving away desperate-looking freebies. (Rovsar and Ponsford do acknowledge that the site is cheap and pretty, respectively.) British journalist Kevin Anderson used the Times&#8217; paywall as an opportunity to light into the thinking that leads newspapers to charge for content online in the first place. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Annenberg-Oxford Summer Institute: Continuing the Conversation</title>
		<link>http://steveouting.com/2010/07/02/the-times-vs-guardian-strategies-uber-dumb-smart/comment-page-1/#comment-96146</link>
		<dc:creator>Annenberg-Oxford Summer Institute: Continuing the Conversation</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 15:40:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://steveouting.com/?p=1422#comment-96146</guid>
		<description>[...] 5% in the paidcontent.co.uk and Harris survey would pay to continue to use the service. (For a good critique of the Murdochs&#8217; hard paywall that they just erected around The Times and The Su... look at different commercial [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] 5% in the paidcontent.co.uk and Harris survey would pay to continue to use the service. (For a good critique of the Murdochs&#8217; hard paywall that they just erected around The Times and The Su&#8230; look at different commercial [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Sandhedens time for nyhedsmedier &#171; Ny Journalistik</title>
		<link>http://steveouting.com/2010/07/02/the-times-vs-guardian-strategies-uber-dumb-smart/comment-page-1/#comment-95287</link>
		<dc:creator>Sandhedens time for nyhedsmedier &#171; Ny Journalistik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jul 2010 08:29:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://steveouting.com/?p=1422#comment-95287</guid>
		<description>[...] Steve Outing: The Times vs Guardian Strategies: Uber-dumb &amp; Smart [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Steve Outing: The Times vs Guardian Strategies: Uber-dumb &amp; Smart [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Medial Digital&#187; Linktipps Neu &#187; Linktipps zum Wochenstart: On the internet no one knows you&#8217;re a newspaper!</title>
		<link>http://steveouting.com/2010/07/02/the-times-vs-guardian-strategies-uber-dumb-smart/comment-page-1/#comment-95178</link>
		<dc:creator>Medial Digital&#187; Linktipps Neu &#187; Linktipps zum Wochenstart: On the internet no one knows you&#8217;re a newspaper!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jul 2010 17:26:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://steveouting.com/?p=1422#comment-95178</guid>
		<description>[...] 1: Steve Outing sieht sich von einer Kommentatorin seines Blogposts über die Times-Paywall gründlich missverstande... und nutzt die Gelegenheit, seine Ausführungen zu präzisieren. Hier ist eins seiner Argumente: [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] 1: Steve Outing sieht sich von einer Kommentatorin seines Blogposts über die Times-Paywall gründlich missverstande&#8230; und nutzt die Gelegenheit, seine Ausführungen zu präzisieren. Hier ist eins seiner Argumente: [...]</p>
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		<title>By: This Week in Review: Time’s non-pay paywall, free vs. pay in Britain and what to do with content farms&#160;&#124;&#160;This Is An Awesome Web Site</title>
		<link>http://steveouting.com/2010/07/02/the-times-vs-guardian-strategies-uber-dumb-smart/comment-page-1/#comment-95035</link>
		<dc:creator>This Week in Review: Time’s non-pay paywall, free vs. pay in Britain and what to do with content farms&#160;&#124;&#160;This Is An Awesome Web Site</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jul 2010 16:01:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://steveouting.com/?p=1422#comment-95035</guid>
		<description>[...] Steve Outing and Poynter&#8217;s Bill Mitchell noted that the Times&#8217; paywall is among the most impenetrable we&#8217;ve seen yet in newspapers: All non-subscribers can see is the homepage, and even the headlines are blocked from online news aggregators. New York&#8217;s Chris Rovsar took stock of what The New York Times (planning its own paid-content system next year) could learn from how the Times rolled out its paywall, and basically, it boils down to, &#8220;Whatever they did, just don&#8217;t do it.&#8221; He and the Press Gazette&#8217;s Dominic Ponsford ripped the Times&#8217; paid-content strategy, criticizing it for not being RSS-compatible, not linking, and giving away desperate-looking freebies. (Rovsar and Ponsford do acknowledge that the site is cheap and pretty, respectively.) British journalist Kevin Anderson used the Times&#8217; paywall as an opportunity to light into the thinking that leads newspapers to charge for content online in the first place. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Steve Outing and Poynter&#8217;s Bill Mitchell noted that the Times&#8217; paywall is among the most impenetrable we&#8217;ve seen yet in newspapers: All non-subscribers can see is the homepage, and even the headlines are blocked from online news aggregators. New York&#8217;s Chris Rovsar took stock of what The New York Times (planning its own paid-content system next year) could learn from how the Times rolled out its paywall, and basically, it boils down to, &#8220;Whatever they did, just don&#8217;t do it.&#8221; He and the Press Gazette&#8217;s Dominic Ponsford ripped the Times&#8217; paid-content strategy, criticizing it for not being RSS-compatible, not linking, and giving away desperate-looking freebies. (Rovsar and Ponsford do acknowledge that the site is cheap and pretty, respectively.) British journalist Kevin Anderson used the Times&#8217; paywall as an opportunity to light into the thinking that leads newspapers to charge for content online in the first place. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: This Week in Review: Time&#8217;s non-pay paywall, free vs. pay in Britain and what to do with content farms » Nieman Journalism Lab</title>
		<link>http://steveouting.com/2010/07/02/the-times-vs-guardian-strategies-uber-dumb-smart/comment-page-1/#comment-95023</link>
		<dc:creator>This Week in Review: Time&#8217;s non-pay paywall, free vs. pay in Britain and what to do with content farms » Nieman Journalism Lab</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jul 2010 14:02:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://steveouting.com/?p=1422#comment-95023</guid>
		<description>[...] Steve Outing and Poynter&#8217;s Bill Mitchell noted that the Times&#8217; paywall is among the most impenetrable we&#8217;ve seen yet in newspapers: All non-subscribers can see is the homepage, and even the headlines are blocked from online news aggregators. New York&#8217;s Chris Rovsar took stock of what The New York Times (planning its own paid-content system next year) could learn from how the Times rolled out its paywall, and basically, it boils down to, &#8220;Whatever they did, just don&#8217;t do it.&#8221; He and the Press Gazette&#8217;s Dominic Ponsford ripped the Times&#8217; paid-content strategy, criticizing it for not being RSS-compatible, not linking, and giving away desperate-looking freebies. (Rovsar and Ponsford do acknowledge that the site is cheap and pretty, respectively.) British journalist Kevin Anderson used the Times&#8217; paywall as an opportunity to light into the thinking that leads newspapers to charge for content online in the first place. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Steve Outing and Poynter&#8217;s Bill Mitchell noted that the Times&#8217; paywall is among the most impenetrable we&#8217;ve seen yet in newspapers: All non-subscribers can see is the homepage, and even the headlines are blocked from online news aggregators. New York&#8217;s Chris Rovsar took stock of what The New York Times (planning its own paid-content system next year) could learn from how the Times rolled out its paywall, and basically, it boils down to, &#8220;Whatever they did, just don&#8217;t do it.&#8221; He and the Press Gazette&#8217;s Dominic Ponsford ripped the Times&#8217; paid-content strategy, criticizing it for not being RSS-compatible, not linking, and giving away desperate-looking freebies. (Rovsar and Ponsford do acknowledge that the site is cheap and pretty, respectively.) British journalist Kevin Anderson used the Times&#8217; paywall as an opportunity to light into the thinking that leads newspapers to charge for content online in the first place. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Sam Ford</title>
		<link>http://steveouting.com/2010/07/02/the-times-vs-guardian-strategies-uber-dumb-smart/comment-page-1/#comment-94827</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam Ford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jul 2010 14:30:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://steveouting.com/?p=1422#comment-94827</guid>
		<description>Great comparison of two business models here, Steve. The question you pose is one that trade publications have really been struggling with as well: how to balance the way people spread content today with a business model that pays to allow the journalism to continue to happen. Of course, word-of-mouth and sharing is nothing new, but--as you point out--the way that media is spread has been amplified, and thus the &quot;spread&quot; has proliferated. This puts new, &quot;unofficial&quot; voices in the mix more readily, and it leaves the &quot;big guns&quot; questioning how exactly to sell their value. If you overly police the spread of your content, you of course limit its impact. I&#039;ll be interested in seeing how the NY Times&#039; model works, but it seems that Guardian&#039;s idea is getting at something...&quot;Quote us and link back, or excerpt and full and carry with it an add.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great comparison of two business models here, Steve. The question you pose is one that trade publications have really been struggling with as well: how to balance the way people spread content today with a business model that pays to allow the journalism to continue to happen. Of course, word-of-mouth and sharing is nothing new, but&#8211;as you point out&#8211;the way that media is spread has been amplified, and thus the &#8220;spread&#8221; has proliferated. This puts new, &#8220;unofficial&#8221; voices in the mix more readily, and it leaves the &#8220;big guns&#8221; questioning how exactly to sell their value. If you overly police the spread of your content, you of course limit its impact. I&#8217;ll be interested in seeing how the NY Times&#8217; model works, but it seems that Guardian&#8217;s idea is getting at something&#8230;&#8221;Quote us and link back, or excerpt and full and carry with it an add.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Crosbie Fitch</title>
		<link>http://steveouting.com/2010/07/02/the-times-vs-guardian-strategies-uber-dumb-smart/comment-page-1/#comment-94825</link>
		<dc:creator>Crosbie Fitch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jul 2010 14:03:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://steveouting.com/?p=1422#comment-94825</guid>
		<description>One has to wonder why those such as Pernille are out to characterise anyone as against paying for journalism. 

It must be because they readily recognise that they can&#039;t characterise anyone as &#039;against paying for copies&#039; because that is an evidently reasonable position. However, someone against paying journalists for their labour on principle is a tantamount to slave driver (a position you&#039;d expect the likes of Murdoch to sympathise with - free labour=more profit).

Murdoch&#039;s problem is that he profits from selling copy (aka content) at monopoly protected prices - not journalism. For him journalism is an inconvenient overhead that must be borne in order to sell copies.

Journalists sell journalism, usually to newspapers. However, the newspaper producer being unable to sell copies is doomed, so journalists are going to have to look for new customers. The only customers left are those formerly known as newspaper purchasers, i.e. people interested in receiving good journalism.

And that&#039;s what&#039;s left: journalists and their readers. The readers&#039; money for the journalist&#039;s journalism (not the derogatory &#039;content&#039; used to fill paper containers with). This is a direct transaction. There are no copies, no newspapers, no Murdochs, because there is no market for copies. It&#039;s just a simple exchange of journalism and money. 

So the likes of Pernille have got the wrong end of the stick. The future is bright for those paying journalists for journalism, and journalists hoping to be paid for their work. What is coming to an end is paying for copies (an end to the 18th century suspension of the public&#039;s liberty to make and sell copies in a free market).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One has to wonder why those such as Pernille are out to characterise anyone as against paying for journalism. </p>
<p>It must be because they readily recognise that they can&#8217;t characterise anyone as &#8216;against paying for copies&#8217; because that is an evidently reasonable position. However, someone against paying journalists for their labour on principle is a tantamount to slave driver (a position you&#8217;d expect the likes of Murdoch to sympathise with &#8211; free labour=more profit).</p>
<p>Murdoch&#8217;s problem is that he profits from selling copy (aka content) at monopoly protected prices &#8211; not journalism. For him journalism is an inconvenient overhead that must be borne in order to sell copies.</p>
<p>Journalists sell journalism, usually to newspapers. However, the newspaper producer being unable to sell copies is doomed, so journalists are going to have to look for new customers. The only customers left are those formerly known as newspaper purchasers, i.e. people interested in receiving good journalism.</p>
<p>And that&#8217;s what&#8217;s left: journalists and their readers. The readers&#8217; money for the journalist&#8217;s journalism (not the derogatory &#8216;content&#8217; used to fill paper containers with). This is a direct transaction. There are no copies, no newspapers, no Murdochs, because there is no market for copies. It&#8217;s just a simple exchange of journalism and money. </p>
<p>So the likes of Pernille have got the wrong end of the stick. The future is bright for those paying journalists for journalism, and journalists hoping to be paid for their work. What is coming to an end is paying for copies (an end to the 18th century suspension of the public&#8217;s liberty to make and sell copies in a free market).</p>
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		<title>By: Reactions coming thick and fast to Rupert Murdoch&#8217;s Times paywalls &#171; Fin O&#8217;Reilly</title>
		<link>http://steveouting.com/2010/07/02/the-times-vs-guardian-strategies-uber-dumb-smart/comment-page-1/#comment-94808</link>
		<dc:creator>Reactions coming thick and fast to Rupert Murdoch&#8217;s Times paywalls &#171; Fin O&#8217;Reilly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jul 2010 08:00:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://steveouting.com/?p=1422#comment-94808</guid>
		<description>[...] Outing at least lays his cards on the table, saying Rupert Murdoch&#8217;s move is uber-dumb. He makes a point of how &#8220;hard&#8221; the paywalls actually are &#8211; no Google indexing [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Outing at least lays his cards on the table, saying Rupert Murdoch&#8217;s move is uber-dumb. He makes a point of how &#8220;hard&#8221; the paywalls actually are &#8211; no Google indexing [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Medial Digital&#187; Linktipps Neu &#187; Linktipps zum Wochenstart: Südafrika ohne Disneylandtouch</title>
		<link>http://steveouting.com/2010/07/02/the-times-vs-guardian-strategies-uber-dumb-smart/comment-page-1/#comment-94705</link>
		<dc:creator>Medial Digital&#187; Linktipps Neu &#187; Linktipps zum Wochenstart: Südafrika ohne Disneylandtouch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jul 2010 21:27:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://steveouting.com/?p=1422#comment-94705</guid>
		<description>[...] The Times vs. Guardian strategies: uber-dumb &amp; smart [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The Times vs. Guardian strategies: uber-dumb &amp; smart [...]</p>
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